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	<title>Comments on: Veterans, War, and What You Are Fighting For</title>
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	<link>http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/2009/11/11/veterans-war-and-what-you-are-fighting-for/</link>
	<description>Where Manifest Destiny Goes to Die</description>
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		<title>By: nezua</title>
		<link>http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/2009/11/11/veterans-war-and-what-you-are-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-4892</link>
		<dc:creator>nezua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/?p=5862#comment-4892</guid>
		<description>Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Rafael</title>
		<link>http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/2009/11/11/veterans-war-and-what-you-are-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-4885</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/?p=5862#comment-4885</guid>
		<description>My views are equally complex. I lost family members to war and I seen other (as well as close friends and their families) go through the process. I am not opposed to the idea of &quot;Just War&quot; although I am fully aware that even in self defense war, by any other name, is still murder. 

I also find myself an an Imperial citizen (second class) at odds with those whom I consider my brothers and sisters who choose to fight for a foreign flag in a foreign land, under the very symbol that I find at times repugnant, overbearing and oppressive.

I can only say this, there are no &quot;good&quot; wars only worthy causes. It is up to each and everyone of us to stay true to those causes by embracing the truth at all times, no matter how unpalatable and continuing to remain true to ourselves and our ideals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My views are equally complex. I lost family members to war and I seen other (as well as close friends and their families) go through the process. I am not opposed to the idea of &#8220;Just War&#8221; although I am fully aware that even in self defense war, by any other name, is still murder. </p>
<p>I also find myself an an Imperial citizen (second class) at odds with those whom I consider my brothers and sisters who choose to fight for a foreign flag in a foreign land, under the very symbol that I find at times repugnant, overbearing and oppressive.</p>
<p>I can only say this, there are no &#8220;good&#8221; wars only worthy causes. It is up to each and everyone of us to stay true to those causes by embracing the truth at all times, no matter how unpalatable and continuing to remain true to ourselves and our ideals.</p>
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		<title>By: Malicia</title>
		<link>http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/2009/11/11/veterans-war-and-what-you-are-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-4872</link>
		<dc:creator>Malicia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/?p=5862#comment-4872</guid>
		<description>Nora, I am right there with you.

My brother is overseas in Afghanistan right now, my dad was on an aircraft carrier during the first gulf war, and both of my grandfathers were in the US Navy.  And many many family friends (one of whom was shot down in a helicopter and I remember today...)

But my great-grandfather came to this country to escape war, and I love peace, as I&#039;m sure he did.

My brother is an amazing man, I&#039;m glad it&#039;s him representing our country even though I&#039;d also rather him be home.  The smart, compassionate, and wonderful military people I know bring back an international perspective when they come back, and I can say I&#039;ve been enriched by the military people in my life.

There are military people that are part of the problem.  But there are just too many people in the military with their unique experience and perspectives to not also realize many of them are part of the solution.

A 3 dimensional perspective like Nez gave is good, and his personal family history also helped.  I mean all good/ all bad just doesn&#039;t work or allow for them to be part of the solution.  It also means they are appropriated by one side or the other - so one side doesn&#039;t want to hear any good stories, the other doesn&#039;t want to hear any bad ones.

Again, thanks Nezua.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nora, I am right there with you.</p>
<p>My brother is overseas in Afghanistan right now, my dad was on an aircraft carrier during the first gulf war, and both of my grandfathers were in the US Navy.  And many many family friends (one of whom was shot down in a helicopter and I remember today&#8230;)</p>
<p>But my great-grandfather came to this country to escape war, and I love peace, as I&#8217;m sure he did.</p>
<p>My brother is an amazing man, I&#8217;m glad it&#8217;s him representing our country even though I&#8217;d also rather him be home.  The smart, compassionate, and wonderful military people I know bring back an international perspective when they come back, and I can say I&#8217;ve been enriched by the military people in my life.</p>
<p>There are military people that are part of the problem.  But there are just too many people in the military with their unique experience and perspectives to not also realize many of them are part of the solution.</p>
<p>A 3 dimensional perspective like Nez gave is good, and his personal family history also helped.  I mean all good/ all bad just doesn&#8217;t work or allow for them to be part of the solution.  It also means they are appropriated by one side or the other &#8211; so one side doesn&#8217;t want to hear any good stories, the other doesn&#8217;t want to hear any bad ones.</p>
<p>Again, thanks Nezua.</p>
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		<title>By: nezua</title>
		<link>http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/2009/11/11/veterans-war-and-what-you-are-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-4864</link>
		<dc:creator>nezua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/?p=5862#comment-4864</guid>
		<description>Thanks for telling all of that here, Nora. I appreciate your sharing truth and experience I&#039;ve never had, and yet that rings inside me, makes sense right away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for telling all of that here, Nora. I appreciate your sharing truth and experience I&#8217;ve never had, and yet that rings inside me, makes sense right away.</p>
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		<title>By: Nora</title>
		<link>http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/2009/11/11/veterans-war-and-what-you-are-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-4863</link>
		<dc:creator>Nora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theunapologeticmexican.org/elmachete/?p=5862#comment-4863</guid>
		<description>Nezua, it is with a somewhat heavy heart, yet one filled with gratitude, to know that there are others who also share this sense of &quot;complexity,&quot; as you say, when thinking and agonizing over the military and those who join.

The gratitude is real that I feel, but as you have said, when military service is undertaken for selfish, hateful, shallow reasons I cannot stand up with any sense of pride; not for the U.S., not for the military, not for the individual with impure motives and actions.  

I share this only as an example and don&#039;t want anyone to in any way think I am &quot;bragging&quot; or engaging in any other type of lifting up.

My three oldest sons have served, or are serving, in the Navy. My two younger sons and only daughter are also considering joining up. John, Matt, and Gabe are now 24, 21, and 20 and they joined for reasons of economics, the chance to &quot;become men,&quot; to provide for themselves after a life of some hardship, and also for reasons they themselves only understand. It is difficult for me,as their mom, to hate the notion of war, to believe that the wars our country have undertaken in the past 8 years are based upon lies, prejudice, and greed. I take comfort that these young men (and all our young people joining up and serving) have the potential to rise above the baseness, the propaganda, the lies, yet still see that their souls can be made stronger and wiser, as long as they do not allow ignorance and hate to infect their lives. 

Ok, that&#039;s all. Actually, I could go on and on, but for everyone&#039;s sake I won&#039;t.  I have found myself in a distinct minority and realize that to stand up for what we feel is right is often a lonely place to stand.  As for my six children, well, my job is to encourage them to keep their hearts and their minds open, to be discerning and to put other human beings before themselves.  Especially, at this time, those of Iraq and Afghanistan,and other countries I must learn more about; human beings like us, being used and destroyed by a country that is trying to destroy not only those we have been attacking and &quot;bringing democracy&quot; to, but those here in the U.S., by attempting to convince a population that evil is somehow good, that war in itself is &quot;patriotic&quot; and has some sort of message of redemption.

To our familias: Beto, Vicente, and Jeno; people of Nezua, and to Johnathan, Matthew, and Gabriel; people of Nora.  To everyone&#039;s family members:   Gracias, Thank You, Love, and the utmost gratitude for your brave and kind hearts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nezua, it is with a somewhat heavy heart, yet one filled with gratitude, to know that there are others who also share this sense of &#8220;complexity,&#8221; as you say, when thinking and agonizing over the military and those who join.</p>
<p>The gratitude is real that I feel, but as you have said, when military service is undertaken for selfish, hateful, shallow reasons I cannot stand up with any sense of pride; not for the U.S., not for the military, not for the individual with impure motives and actions.  </p>
<p>I share this only as an example and don&#8217;t want anyone to in any way think I am &#8220;bragging&#8221; or engaging in any other type of lifting up.</p>
<p>My three oldest sons have served, or are serving, in the Navy. My two younger sons and only daughter are also considering joining up. John, Matt, and Gabe are now 24, 21, and 20 and they joined for reasons of economics, the chance to &#8220;become men,&#8221; to provide for themselves after a life of some hardship, and also for reasons they themselves only understand. It is difficult for me,as their mom, to hate the notion of war, to believe that the wars our country have undertaken in the past 8 years are based upon lies, prejudice, and greed. I take comfort that these young men (and all our young people joining up and serving) have the potential to rise above the baseness, the propaganda, the lies, yet still see that their souls can be made stronger and wiser, as long as they do not allow ignorance and hate to infect their lives. </p>
<p>Ok, that&#8217;s all. Actually, I could go on and on, but for everyone&#8217;s sake I won&#8217;t.  I have found myself in a distinct minority and realize that to stand up for what we feel is right is often a lonely place to stand.  As for my six children, well, my job is to encourage them to keep their hearts and their minds open, to be discerning and to put other human beings before themselves.  Especially, at this time, those of Iraq and Afghanistan,and other countries I must learn more about; human beings like us, being used and destroyed by a country that is trying to destroy not only those we have been attacking and &#8220;bringing democracy&#8221; to, but those here in the U.S., by attempting to convince a population that evil is somehow good, that war in itself is &#8220;patriotic&#8221; and has some sort of message of redemption.</p>
<p>To our familias: Beto, Vicente, and Jeno; people of Nezua, and to Johnathan, Matthew, and Gabriel; people of Nora.  To everyone&#8217;s family members:   Gracias, Thank You, Love, and the utmost gratitude for your brave and kind hearts.</p>
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